Continued from part 2.
When he realized that I actually wanted him to answer my question, Jim responded.
"I think that what Jesus said was truth."
"I agree. But how do you approach the very idea of truth. Like how do know if Hinduism is true?"
Jim had to think about that. He really had no answer. He shrugged.
By now, Jim's wife was beginning to wonder who this alien from Jupiter was who was engaged in this deep conversation with her husband. She said something to him about finding their seats for dinner (it was a dinner party). He indicated he would be right there.
I explained in two sentences, as best I could, how I approached truth claims. Jim was intrigued.
Then he asked. "So what do you think about Islam?"
"Some things Muslims believe are true. But at the core of their faith, there are problems. What they believe about Jesus and what happened on the cross, for example, is not correct. Nor is their denial of Christ's bodily resurrection from the dead."
I could tell he really wanted to talk about Islam, but we were running out of time.
"Listen, Jim. I intend to start a monthly tradition at my house next year. A group of us, mostly Christians but not exclusively so, are going to meet on a regular basis to discuss the important ideas of the day. We are going to kick around the really important things in life, and do it around food. I am calling it a Pigfest. Would you be interested in coming?"
His face lit up.
"Sure. I'd love to. I would really like to learn about what others think."
We headed to our tables. Jim and his wife sat at a different table than we did. I got into yet another interesting worldview discussion around our table, but that will have to wait for a different thread.
After dinner, on the way out, Jim came by my table and said he would be in touch. He is a nice guy. I hope we can fast become friends. I am anxious to hear about how he is learning to forgive others. I would like to share what I have learned about truth, faith and forgiveness. We have a lot to talk about. I am excited about the prospect of making a new friend in the neighborhood.
Epilogue
In the course of this three part thread about the Christmas party, some have expressed a concern about how I approach conversing with others about worldviews. Let me put those fears to rest. I don't go out on secret missions to convert people. I don't peddle my worldview onto others. What I do look for, however, are opportunities to engage others in substantive discussion about important ideas. I think our culture has grown too comfortable with shallowness. We need to be able to graciously talk about what is really important in life. Our days are numbered. Attending two funerals in the last month has reminded me of that. We need to make the most of the time we are given.
I also don't believe the notion of converting someone is Biblical anyway. It is God, through the work of his Holy Spirit, who regenerates human hearts. Do conversations with human beings play a part in that? Sure. But humans do not convert other humans to a saving faith in God. Justification is a God thing, and to Him alone goes the glory.
My mission is not secret. It is to make friends with those whom God has placed in my sphere, extend grace to them, tell them about the joy I have, explain why I have it, and faithfully follow Christ's teaching on how to live and treat others.
I googled the book that Jim talked about. Turns out that it is part of the New Age movement, and it is dressed up in Christian language. Many churches have fallen for it and have endorsed it and sponsored study groups.
Over 1 and a half million copies of The Course have been sold, and over 2,200 study groups now meet worldwide.
Here are some links which describe The Course.
Probe Ministries, A Course In Miracles
A Course In Miracles, A Biblical Evalution
A Course In Miracles, Religious Movements, University of Virginia.
A Course In Miracles, Skeptics Dictionary
A Course In Miracles, The Official Website
sounds like another heresy we need to counter in the church real fast. I will get a little more educated on the course myself.
I like your approach with people and talking about world views. I try and foster this in my small group but have not had a whole lot of success. I am sure that will change with time and with reading great blogs such as this.
Posted by: Carl Holmes | December 14, 2005 at 20:20
"I try and foster this in my small group but have not had a whole lot of success."
Why not? Please esplain.
"sounds like another heresy we need to counter in the church real fast."
That is why God gave the spiritual gift of discernment to the church ... to protect it from error.
The most dangerous heresies are the ones that have a lot of truth embedded in them. The "course" teaches a lot of good stuff and is smart enough to use Christian terminology. The light needs to shine on where it is different with orthodox Christian doctrine. Believe me, there are big differences in this case of this heresy.
Posted by: Mr. Dawntreader | December 15, 2005 at 07:22
Jeff,
Don't worry about tgirsch's comments on how you approach conversations. It seems him and his ilk would prefer that religion was never talked about, that's the way you get people to think it is unimportant.
I am just disappointed to miss out on the christianity / free gift conversation :(
Posted by: Alan grey | December 19, 2005 at 01:13
Alan:
My Lord, how you have misjudged me. Ask my wife, and she'll tell you it's almost impossible to get me NOT to talk about religion. I just don't talk about it in quite the same vein as Jeff. And I generally don't go looking for discussions of religion, it just sort of happens that way.
I actually have a secret agenda of promoting greater intermingling of church and state and of more religion being forced into public schools. If state-sponsored religion has the same effect here that it's had in England and Canada, then I'm all for it!
Jeff:
I was in a book store today, and saw a book by Joel Osteen, with his picture prominently featured on the cover. And my thought was, "Oh, that guy!" Yeah, I hate him, too. He's little more than a two-bit motivational speaker using Christianity as his McGuffin. So there's another thing we can agree on (even if you wouldn't go so far as to use the word "hate").
Posted by: tgirsch | December 20, 2005 at 00:47
Yeah, I wouldn't say I quite hate this guy. I realize I came on a bit strong earlier.
Osteen scares me. He adds confusion because people think he is promoting Christianity. What he is promoting is how to feel better.
Posted by: Mr. Dawntreader | December 20, 2005 at 09:03
If he had any sense, he'd be promoting dental care products. Have you SEEN those teeth?
Posted by: tgirsch | December 20, 2005 at 14:58
Of course, if his wife could behave herself on a plane...
Posted by: tgirsch | December 20, 2005 at 23:31
"Of course, if his wife could behave herself on a plane..."
Hmmm. You got me on this one. Post a link.
Posted by: Jeff | December 21, 2005 at 18:43
Jeff:
I'm surprised you hadn't heard, but it's here:
HOUSTON — The wife of the pastor of the nation's largest church was asked to leave a plane after she failed to comply with a flight attendant's instructions, the FBI said Tuesday.
Houston Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen, his wife, Victoria, and their two children boarded a Continental Airlines flight from Houston to Vail, Colo., Monday. The plane's door had been closed when Victoria Osteen and a flight attendant had a disagreement.
"She failed to comply with the flight attendant's instructions, and they were asked to leave the flight," FBI spokeswoman Luz Garcia said without elaborating on the disagreement.
The FBI reviewed a report from Continental after the incident, Garcia said. No charges will be filed, she said.
Posted by: tgirsch | December 22, 2005 at 17:57
Weird. Thanks for the background.
Posted by: Mr. Dawntreader | December 28, 2005 at 09:36