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« Jesus Walked On H20, And How You Can Too | Main | OUCH! »

April 04, 2006

Comments

I don't know that it's fair to call Flew "the world's most famous atheist." I'm an atheist, and before he converted to Deism, I'd never even heard of the guy. I'd argue that Ernest Hemingway, Arthur C. Clarke, Gene Roddenberry, Mark Twain, and Bertrand Russell were/are all more famous than Flew.

What Tgirsch said. Until he became a deist, it was "Flew who?" to me. Charles Templeton, Dan Barker, Cliff Walker, Madeline Murray O'Hair, Richard Dawson; these were the icons of atheism to me. I find it more than a little self-serving that Biola awards this recognition following Flew's "conversion.

Tird the wh9o is this guy reaction frpm me too, though I am not rechnically an atheist. And I would have been more impressed if the award had come before his conversion.

And how old is this award - I can find no list of winners anywhere.

Oh, now I see. He was a Libertarian. No wonder nobody paid any attention to him. :)

Ummm...my face is red. I just noticed I typed "Richard Dawson",who played Newkirk on Hogan's Heroes and his own kissy-face self on Family Feud. I meant, of course, Richard Dawkins. My bad.

Rob,

Hogan's Heroes was probably my favorite show in my early years -- tho the Stooges came in a close second. Dawson will always be the cheeky Newkirk to me -- versus the Family Feud guy.

Rob, Kevin, Tom,

With all due respect, debating who is the world's most famous atheist is missing the significance of the post. Free and open inquiry are important and should be rewarded, true?

Here is a guy who followed the evidence where it led at great risk to his own personal reputation. Apparently, judging by his own comment, he has paid a professional price for his honesty.

Even an ardent atheist should be able to admire the kind of courage Flew has shone, even if they disagree with his conclusion.

"Free and open inquiry are important and should be rewarded, true?"

Yes, it should, and I admire Flew's honesty in the face of opposition. But I don't think Biola will soon honor either Barker or Templeton, who were led to atheism by the evidence.

Jeff:
Free and open inquiry are important and should be rewarded, true?

True. But as Rob points out, Flew likely received the award not because of his "free and open inquiry" but because they liked his conclusion. People whose free and open inquiry led them to the opposite conclusion aren't terribly likely to be rewarded.

Perhaps so.

Don't know if a Templeton conversion is on the same scale as a Flew conversion (given Flew's career, standing and numerous debates and books against theism), and I don't know that Templeton's conversion required the bravery that Flew's did. It is open for debate, I suppose. I think Flew's career could be described as an apologist for atheism given his prodigious writing and debating -- that is what makes Flew's about face notable. Was Barker well known as a published Christian apologist prior to his conversion? I don't know his story.

Now if Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell converted to atheism, I think that would be notable.

I was surprised to see an award from Biola going to a non-Christian philosopher personally. Don't forget, Flew is not a Christian. Rejecting atheism is one thing, but it does not make one a Christian. In terms of eternal destiny, Flew has not trusted in Christ (so far as anyone knows) and therefore has exactly the same standing before a holy God as Richard Dawkins does.

Flew has not trusted in Christ (so far as anyone knows) and therefore has exactly the same standing before a holy God as Richard Dawkins does.

What about Richard Dawson? Where does he stand? Will he be kissing ugly family members for all eternity in hell's Condemned Family Fued?

*ducks*

"But rape is simply not a laughing matter."

Neither is hell.

I knew that Dawson gaffe would come back to haunt me, but the source was unexpected. Et tu, tgirsch? ;-)

Neither is hell [a laughing matter]

To those of us who are purportedly doomed to face it, it has to be. The alternative would be despair. We can't just arbitrarily "decide" to believe in the Christian religion, any more than you could "decide" to believe in Islam. Faith can't be faked. Since I haven't got any, hell's apparently in my future (according to you, anyway), so when life serves me Hell, I chose to make Hell-ade.

(No, I certainly didn't intend to make light of your beliefs, but come on. Lighten up. You're bound to get some of this when you're dealing with the damned, like Rob and myself.)

Rob:

Sorry, couldn't help it. In fact, if you hadn't pointed it out, I never would have noticed it.

"We can't just arbitrarily "decide" to believe in the Christian religion, any more than you could "decide" to believe in Islam. Faith can't be faked."

Truer words were never spoken. Faith not only cannot be faked, it cannot be summonsed up by sheer will power. If you are to be a follower of Christ, you will receive the faith. It is in God's hands.

I am sorry. I just can't laugh about you and Rob going to hell. The thought of friends perishing sickens me.

Jeff:
The thought of friends perishing sickens me.

I'm glad that, despite our many differences, we can still call one another "friend."

As am I.

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