Blogroll

Web Links

Sitemeter


W3 Counter


« Babe Ruth Did It On Hot Dogs And Beer | Main | Thank You Dan Brown »

June 03, 2006

Comments

This is the first time I've heard of the term 'Common Sense Realism'. I like it a lot. I often have pointed out to would-be relativists of one stripe or another that both they and I have a deep and absolute knowledge that cannot be denied about certain things (e.g. buying and selling human beings is depraved, etc). Those who claim that such 'knowledge' is really some form of programming (leftover from when we were herd animals on the Serengeti, no doubt, and reinforced by the cumulative positive effect on the survival of communities that passed such 'knowledge' on in a more or less formal fashion) must then deal with the fact that making such a claim doesn't just explain the presence of the knowledge, it explains it...away. If evolution is true, morality is meaningless. If we abandon the Christian underpinnings of our society, we doom it. Actually, never mind the 'if'; it appears we have already done so.

Interestingly, Madison was a VERY strong supporter of the separation of church and state:

"An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government."
[James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124]

For Madison, religion was personal, not public. He largely distrusted ecclesiastical establishments.

Doc:

Common sense realism is still quite popular. The effect of it was felt quite profoundly by the founders of our nation as evidenced even by Jefferson in penning the words, "we find these truths to be self-evident" ... in other words, common sense. Jefferson was no Christian, but even he had to admit that there were truths that we all know ... in fact, we could not *not* know them.

Where people like to shift the debate, of course, is debating what constitutes the truths we can't not know. But that is a red herring. It makes a tacit admission to the fact that objective truths do exist -- and not just empirical truths, but moral truths.

The debate gets very very interesting when you consider the arguments of Dutch Calvinist thinkers like Kuyper, Dooyeward and Van Til ... who make a cogent case that God is the starting point of knowledge, rather than undeniable foundational truths. For without God, there exists no rational foundation for knowledge at all. When I present this to non-Christians, they simply attempt to wave their hands and say rationality and knowledge needs no foundation or justification -- logic simply makes intuitive sense so we can start there -- we don't need God. Besides, presupposing God is circular, they say.

To which I reply, presupposing rationality is circular ... you are using logic and reason to prove logic and reason.

To which they reply, yes, but it works -- and all knowledge would be non-sensical if we didn't presuppose rationality.

To which I reply, I understand that we are rational creatures and rely on rationality because that is the way God made us.

To which they reply, but you cannot start with God, because that is cheating ...

To which I reply, explain how the term cheating is even coherent in a world without God where life is nothing more than matter and motion.

To which, they usually have no coherent response.

Because, a moral standard requires a moral standard giver, right? :)

In short, God must be presupposed no matter how you slice it. This is God's universe and you cannot operate in it as if it were not.

Rob,

First, the Kimball articel was more about Witherspoon than about Madison. It does touch upon Madison because of Witherspoon's influence on Madison -- but the article is more of a discussion of the impact of Witherspoon.

That said, Witherspoon was a big proponent of religious freedom -- and so am I ... and so are most Calvinists.

I cannot speak for Madison, but if he truly was an orthodox Calvinist, as history records him to be, then he (like me) recognizes that men are inherently sinful ... redeemable, but sinful. Hence, the need for checks and balances. The doctrine of depravity is central in Calvninistic thought -- back to my earlier comment in a different thread, men sin because they are sinners, not sinners because they sin. The fact that men are dead in their sin requires that God must move first in order for them to receive and trust in Christ.

Anyway, back to separation of church and state ... because of the depravity of man, any institution that is man-centered will ultimately fail -- including religious institutions that abandon Biblical truth. I distrust man centered things too.

But leaping from there to "faith must be personal" is a stretch. I return to Kimball and Morrison's depiction of the chain of reasoning most common in our founders :

the chain of reasoning ran thus: “no republic without liberty, no liberty without virtue, and no virtue without religion.”

The bedrock of the republic is libery made possible by virtue informed by knowledge of God's moral law.

Madison, if he indeed was an orthodox Calvinist, would never have believed that there was no objective moral truth and that everyone's opinions about right and wrong were equal. No way.

The comments to this entry are closed.